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Question Number 164842 by ajfour last updated on 22/Jan/22

Commented by MJS_new last updated on 22/Jan/22

I think the largest R should be of the triangle  with sides 2a, (√(a^2 +b^2 )), (√(a^2 +b^2 )) ⇒ R=((a^2 +b^2 )/(2b))

IthinkthelargestRshouldbeofthetrianglewithsides2a,a2+b2,a2+b2R=a2+b22b

Commented by ajfour last updated on 22/Jan/22

I wish you were wrong, sir. I shall  check..

Iwishyouwerewrong,sir.Ishallcheck..

Commented by mr W last updated on 22/Jan/22

i thought the same as MJS sir at first,  because it seems obvious. but then i  found this is not the largest   circumcircle. in fact following are  the largest (red) and smallest (green)  circumcircles.

ithoughtthesameasMJSsiratfirst,becauseitseemsobvious.butthenifoundthisisnotthelargestcircumcircle.infactfollowingarethelargest(red)andsmallest(green)circumcircles.

Commented by mr W last updated on 22/Jan/22

Commented by mr W last updated on 22/Jan/22

R_(max) =((μ/( (√2)+1))+(((√2)+1)/μ))((√(a^2 +b^2 ))/4)   with μ=(b/a)  example: a=2, b=1  R_(max) =((((√2)−1)/2)+2((√2)+1))((√(2^2 +1^2 ))/4)  R_(max) =((3(√5)+5(√(10)))/8)≈2.815  ((a^2 +b^2 )/(2b))=(5/2)=2.5 <2.815

Rmax=(μ2+1+2+1μ)a2+b24withμ=baexample:a=2,b=1Rmax=(212+2(2+1))22+124Rmax=35+51082.815a2+b22b=52=2.5<2.815

Commented by MJS_new last updated on 23/Jan/22

you′re right. I put a=1 and use  (((−1)),(0) ) and   ((0),(b) ) as vertices of the fixed side if the Δ  ⇒ the maximum R always is with P= ((((√2)/2)),((((√2)/2)b)) )  and the minimum R with Q= (((−((√2)/2))),((−((√2)/2)b)) )  R_(max) =((√(b^2 +1))/(4b))(((√2)−1)b^2 +(√2)+1)  R_(min) =((√(b^2 +1))/(4b))(((√2)+1)b^2 +(√2)−1)  which represent the same values as you get

youreright.Iputa=1anduse(10)and(0b)asverticesofthefixedsideiftheΔthemaximumRalwaysiswithP=(2222b)andtheminimumRwithQ=(2222b)Rmax=b2+14b((21)b2+2+1)Rmin=b2+14b((2+1)b2+21)whichrepresentthesamevaluesasyouget

Commented by MJS_new last updated on 23/Jan/22

the above R_(min)  is wrong for b below a certain  border I′ve not exactly found yet

theaboveRminiswrongforbbelowacertainborderIvenotexactlyfoundyet

Commented by MJS_new last updated on 23/Jan/22

for b<(√2)−1  we get 2 points Q_1 , Q_2  with x=((b^2 +1±(√(b^4 −6b^2 +1)))/(2(b^2 −1)))  and R_(min)  is below above value

forb<21weget2pointsQ1,Q2withx=b2+1±b46b2+12(b21)andRminisbelowabovevalue

Commented by MJS_new last updated on 23/Jan/22

R_(min) =(√(−(((b^2 +1)((b^2 −1)x−b^2 −1)((b^2 −1)(√(1−x^2 ))+b^2 +1))/(8b^2 )))) with above x

Rmin=(b2+1)((b21)xb21)((b21)1x2+b2+1)8b2withabovex

Commented by mr W last updated on 23/Jan/22

you are right MJS sir! R_(max)  is always  at θ=−(π/4). but R_(min)  is at θ=((3π)/4) only  for (b/a)≥(√2)−1. for (b/a)<(√2)−1 there are  two positions for R_(min) , one at θ<((3π)/4)  and one at θ>((3π)/4). and in this case  R_(min) =((√(a^2 +b^2 ))/2).  can you please check if this matches  also with your result?

youarerightMJSsir!Rmaxisalwaysatθ=π4.butRminisatθ=3π4onlyforba21.forba<21therearetwopositionsforRmin,oneatθ<3π4andoneatθ>3π4.andinthiscaseRmin=a2+b22.canyoupleasecheckifthismatchesalsowithyourresult?

Commented by mr W last updated on 23/Jan/22

Commented by mr W last updated on 23/Jan/22

Commented by mr W last updated on 23/Jan/22

summary:  R_(max) =((μ/( (√2)+1))+(((√2)+1)/μ))((√(a^2 +b^2 ))/4)   R_(min) =((μ/( (√2)−1))+(((√2)−1)/μ))((√(a^2 +b^2 ))/4)  for μ≥(√2)−1  R_(min) =((√(a^2 +b^2 ))/2)  for μ<(√2)−1  with μ=(b/a)≤1

summary:Rmax=(μ2+1+2+1μ)a2+b24Rmin=(μ21+21μ)a2+b24forμ21Rmin=a2+b22forμ<21withμ=ba1

Answered by ajfour last updated on 22/Jan/22

P(acos θ,bsin θ)  condider  line    y−((asin θ)/2)=−(((acos θ+a)/(asin θ)))(x−((a−acos θ)/2))  And line  y+(b/2)=(a/b)(x+(a/2))  subteacting  (b/2)+((asin θ)/2)=((a/b)+((1+cos θ)/(sin θ)))x                                    +(a^2 /(2b))−((asin θ)/2)  ⇒  x=((((a^2 +b^2 )/b)+asin θ)/(2((a/b)+((1+cos θ)/(sin θ)))))  y+b=((a^2 +b^2 )/(2b))+(a/b){((((a^2 +b^2 )/b)+asin θ)/(2((a/b)+((1+cos θ)/(sin θ)))))}  x^2 +(y+b)^2 =R^2   R^2 ={((((a^2 +b^2 )/b)+asin θ)/(2((a/b)+((1+cos θ)/(sin θ)))))}^2 +        +[((a^2 +b^2 )/(2b))+(a/b){((((a^2 +b^2 )/b)+asin θ)/(2((a/b)+((1+cos θ)/(sin θ)))))}]^2   R^2 =(((((a^2 +b^2 )/b)+asin θ)^2 +[4(((a^2 +b^2 )/(2b)))((a/b)+((1+cos θ)/(sin θ)))^2 +(a/b)(((a^2 +b^2 )/b)+asin θ)^2 ]^2 )/(4((a/b)+((1+cos θ)/(sin θ)))^2 ))  let  for example  a=2, b=1  R^2 =(((5+2sin θ)^2 +[10(2+((1+cos θ)/(sin θ)))^2 +2(5+2sin θ)^2 ]^2 )/(4(2+((1+cos θ)/(sin θ)))^2 ))  .....

P(acosθ,bsinθ)condiderlineyasinθ2=(acosθ+aasinθ)(xaacosθ2)Andliney+b2=ab(x+a2)subteactingb2+asinθ2=(ab+1+cosθsinθ)x+a22basinθ2x=a2+b2b+asinθ2(ab+1+cosθsinθ)y+b=a2+b22b+ab{a2+b2b+asinθ2(ab+1+cosθsinθ)}x2+(y+b)2=R2R2={a2+b2b+asinθ2(ab+1+cosθsinθ)}2++[a2+b22b+ab{a2+b2b+asinθ2(ab+1+cosθsinθ)}]2R2=(a2+b2b+asinθ)2+[4(a2+b22b)(ab+1+cosθsinθ)2+ab(a2+b2b+asinθ)2]24(ab+1+cosθsinθ)2letforexamplea=2,b=1R2=(5+2sinθ)2+[10(2+1+cosθsinθ)2+2(5+2sinθ)2]24(2+1+cosθsinθ)2.....

Commented by Tawa11 last updated on 22/Jan/22

Great sir

Greatsir

Answered by ajfour last updated on 23/Jan/22

Let left end be origin O.  slope  p=((bsin θ)/(a+acos θ))  p^2 +1=((a^2 (1+cos θ)^2 +b^2 sin^2 θ)/(a^2 (1+cos θ)^2 ))    slope  q=((b+bsin θ)/(acos θ))  tan φ=tan (tan^(−1) q−tan^(−1) p)  R is maximum if φ=φ_(max) .    tan φ=((q−p)/(1+pq))    ((d(tan φ))/dθ)=0  ⇒   (((1+pq)((dq/dθ)−(dp/dθ))−(q−p)[q((dp/dθ))+p((dq/dθ))])/((1+pq)^2 ))    =0  (1+p^2 )((dq/dθ))=(1+q^2 )((dp/dθ))  (1+p^2 )[((abcos^2 θ+asin θ(b+bsin θ))/(a^2 cos^2 θ))]      =(1+q^2 )[(((1+q^2 )[abcos θ(1+cos θ)+absin^2 θ])/((a+acos θ)^2 ))  ⇒  (1+p^2 )(((1+sin θ)/(cos^2 θ)))=(1+q^2 )((1/(1+cos θ)))  ....

LetleftendbeoriginO.slopep=bsinθa+acosθp2+1=a2(1+cosθ)2+b2sin2θa2(1+cosθ)2slopeq=b+bsinθacosθtanϕ=tan(tan1qtan1p)Rismaximumifϕ=ϕmax.tanϕ=qp1+pqd(tanϕ)dθ=0(1+pq)(dqdθdpdθ)(qp)[q(dpdθ)+p(dqdθ)](1+pq)2=0(1+p2)(dqdθ)=(1+q2)(dpdθ)(1+p2)[abcos2θ+asinθ(b+bsinθ)a2cos2θ]=(1+q2)[(1+q2)[abcosθ(1+cosθ)+absin2θ](a+acosθ)2(1+p2)(1+sinθcos2θ)=(1+q2)(11+cosθ)....

Answered by mr W last updated on 23/Jan/22

Commented by mr W last updated on 24/Jan/22

let μ=(b/a)≤1  A(−a,0)  B(0,−b)  say P(a cos θ, b sin θ)  AP=(√(a^2 (1+cos θ)^2 +b^2 sin^2  θ))  ⇒AP=a(√((1+cos θ)^2 +μ^2 sin^2  θ))  BP=(√(a^2 cos^2  θ+b^2 (1+sin θ)^2 ))  ⇒BP=a(√(cos^2  θ+μ^2 (1+sin θ)^2 ))    AB=(√(a^2 +b^2 ))=a(√(1+μ^2 ))  eqn. of AB:  (x/a)+(y/b)+1=0  distance from P to AB:  d=((∣cos θ+sin θ+1∣)/( (√((1/a^2 )+(1/b^2 )))))=((a^2 μ∣cos θ+sin θ+1∣)/( (√(a^2 +b^2 ))))  area of ΔABP:  Δ=(d(√(a^2 +b^2 ))/2)=((a^2 μ(cos θ+sin θ+1))/2)  Δ=((AP×BP sin φ)/2)  Δ=((a^2  sin φ(√([(1+cos θ)^2 +μ^2 sin^2  θ][cos^2  θ+μ^2 (1+sin θ)^2 ])))/2)  ((a^2 μ(cos θ+sin θ+1))/2)=((a^2  sin φ(√([(1+cos θ)^2 +μ^2 sin^2  θ][cos^2  θ+μ^2 (1+sin θ)^2 ])))/2)  sin φ=((μ(cos θ+sin θ+1))/( (√([(1+cos θ)^2 +μ^2 sin^2  θ][cos^2  θ+μ^2 (1+sin θ)^2 ]))))    R=radius of circumcircle of ΔABP  AB=2R sin φ  R=((AB)/(2 sin φ))  R=((√(a^2 +b^2 ))/(2μ))×((√([(1+cos θ)^2 +μ^2 sin^2  θ][cos^2  θ+μ^2 (1+sin θ)^2 ]))/(cos θ+sin θ+1))  R=(((1−μ^2 )(√(a^2 +b^2 )))/(2μ))×((√((1+cos θ)(1+sin θ)(((1+μ^2 )/(1−μ^2 ))+cos θ)(((1+μ^2 )/(1−μ^2 ))−sin θ)))/(cos θ+sin θ+1))  let λ=((1+μ^2 )/(1−μ^2 ))  R=(((1−μ^2 )(√(a^2 +b^2 )))/(2μ))×((√((1+cos θ)(1+sin θ)(λ+cos θ)(λ−sin θ)))/(cos θ+sin θ+1))  R=(((1−μ^2 )(√(a^2 +b^2 )))/(2μ))×(√(Φ(θ)))  Φ(θ)=(((1+cos θ)(1+sin θ)(λ+cos θ)(λ−sin θ))/((cos θ+sin θ+1)^2 ))  ln Φ(θ)=ln (1+cos θ)+ln (1+sin θ)+ln (λ+cos θ)+ln (λ−sin θ)−2 ln (cos θ+sin θ+1)  ((Φ′(θ))/(Φ(θ)))=((−sin θ)/(1+cos θ))+((cos θ)/(1+sin θ))+((−sin θ)/(λ+cos θ))+((−cos θ)/(λ−sin θ))−((2(−sin θ+cos θ))/(cos θ+sin θ+1))  ((Φ′(θ))/(Φ(θ)))=(cos θ−sin θ)[(((1+cos θ+sin θ)^2 −2(1+cos θ)(1+sin θ))/((1+cos θ)(1+sin θ)))]−(((sin θ+cos θ)(λ+cos θ−sin θ))/((λ+cos θ)(λ−sin θ)))  ((Φ′(θ))/(Φ(θ)))=−(((sin θ+cos θ)(λ+cos θ−sin θ))/((λ+cos θ)(λ−sin θ)))  Φ′(θ)=0 for R_(max)  or R_(min) .  (sin θ+cos θ)(λ+cos θ−sin θ)=0  sin θ+cos θ=0  tan θ=−1  ⇒θ=−(π/4) or ((3π)/4)    λ+cos θ−sin θ=0  sin θ−cos θ=λ  (√2) sin (θ−(π/4))=λ  sin (θ−(π/4))=(λ/( (√2)))  valid only when (λ/( (√2)))≤1,   i.e. λ=((1+μ^2 )/(1−μ^2 ))≤(√2),   μ^2 ≤(((√2)−1)/( (√2)+1))=((√2)−1)^2  ⇒μ≤(√2)−1  θ−(π/4)=sin^(−1) (λ/( (√2))) or π−sin^(−1) (λ/( (√2)))  ⇒θ=sin^(−1) (λ/( (√2)))+(π/4) or ((5π)/4)−sin^(−1) (λ/( (√2)))    R_(max)  is at θ=−(π/4):  R_(max) =(1/( (√2)))(λ+(1/( (√2))))(((1−μ^2 )(√(a^2 +b^2 )))/(2μ))  R_(max) =((((√2)+1)/( μ))+(μ/( (√2)+1)))((√(a^2 +b^2 ))/4)    R_(min)  is at θ=((3π)/4), if μ≥(√2)−1:  R_(min) =((((√2)−1)/( μ))+(μ/( (√2)−1)))((√(a^2 +b^2 ))/4)  R_(min)  is at θ=sin^(−1) (λ/( (√2)))+(π/4) or ((5π)/4)−sin^(−1) (λ/( (√2))), if μ≤(√2)−1:  R_(min) =((√(a^2 +b^2 ))/2)    how to find the circumcenter:  eqn. of  bisector of AP:  y=((b sin θ)/2)−((cos θ+1)/(μ sin θ)) (x−((a(cos θ−1))/2))  eqn. of bisector of BP:  y=((b(sin θ−1))/2)−((cos θ)/(μ(1+sin θ)))(x−((a cos θ)/2))  circumcenter C(x_C , y_C )  ((μ(sin θ−1))/2)−((cos θ)/(μ(1+sin θ)))((x_C /a)−((cos θ)/2))=((μ sin θ)/2)−((cos θ+1)/(μ sin θ)) ((x_C /a)−((cos θ−1)/2))  −(μ^2 /2)=((cos θ)/((1+sin θ)))((x_C /a)−((cos θ)/2))−((cos θ+1)/( sin θ)) ((x_C /a)−((cos θ−1)/2))  ((1−μ^2 )/2)=(((cos θ)/(1+sin θ))−((cos θ+1)/( sin θ)))(x_C /a)  ⇒(x_C /a)=−(((1−μ^2 )(1+sin θ) sin θ)/(2(1+sin θ+cos θ)))  (y_C /a)=((μ(sin θ−1))/2)−((cos θ)/(μ(1+sin θ)))((x_C /a)−((cos θ)/2))  (y_C /a)=(1/(2μ)){((−μ^2 (1−sin θ)(1+sin θ+cos θ)+cos θ−μ^2  sin θ cos θ+cos^2  θ)/((1+sin θ+cos θ)))}  ⇒(y_C /a)=(((1−μ^2 )(1+cos θ) cos θ)/(2μ(1+sin θ+cos θ)))

letμ=ba1A(a,0)B(0,b)sayP(acosθ,bsinθ)AP=a2(1+cosθ)2+b2sin2θAP=a(1+cosθ)2+μ2sin2θBP=a2cos2θ+b2(1+sinθ)2BP=acos2θ+μ2(1+sinθ)2AB=a2+b2=a1+μ2eqn.ofAB:xa+yb+1=0distancefromPtoAB:d=cosθ+sinθ+11a2+1b2=a2μcosθ+sinθ+1a2+b2areaofΔABP:Δ=da2+b22=a2μ(cosθ+sinθ+1)2Δ=AP×BPsinϕ2Δ=a2sinϕ[(1+cosθ)2+μ2sin2θ][cos2θ+μ2(1+sinθ)2]2a2μ(cosθ+sinθ+1)2=a2sinϕ[(1+cosθ)2+μ2sin2θ][cos2θ+μ2(1+sinθ)2]2sinϕ=μ(cosθ+sinθ+1)[(1+cosθ)2+μ2sin2θ][cos2θ+μ2(1+sinθ)2]R=radiusofcircumcircleofΔABPAB=2RsinϕR=AB2sinϕR=a2+b22μ×[(1+cosθ)2+μ2sin2θ][cos2θ+μ2(1+sinθ)2]cosθ+sinθ+1R=(1μ2)a2+b22μ×(1+cosθ)(1+sinθ)(1+μ21μ2+cosθ)(1+μ21μ2sinθ)cosθ+sinθ+1letλ=1+μ21μ2R=(1μ2)a2+b22μ×(1+cosθ)(1+sinθ)(λ+cosθ)(λsinθ)cosθ+sinθ+1R=(1μ2)a2+b22μ×Φ(θ)Φ(θ)=(1+cosθ)(1+sinθ)(λ+cosθ)(λsinθ)(cosθ+sinθ+1)2lnΦ(θ)=ln(1+cosθ)+ln(1+sinθ)+ln(λ+cosθ)+ln(λsinθ)2ln(cosθ+sinθ+1)Φ(θ)Φ(θ)=sinθ1+cosθ+cosθ1+sinθ+sinθλ+cosθ+cosθλsinθ2(sinθ+cosθ)cosθ+sinθ+1Φ(θ)Φ(θ)=(cosθsinθ)[(1+cosθ+sinθ)22(1+cosθ)(1+sinθ)(1+cosθ)(1+sinθ)](sinθ+cosθ)(λ+cosθsinθ)(λ+cosθ)(λsinθ)Φ(θ)Φ(θ)=(sinθ+cosθ)(λ+cosθsinθ)(λ+cosθ)(λsinθ)Φ(θ)=0forRmaxorRmin.(sinθ+cosθ)(λ+cosθsinθ)=0sinθ+cosθ=0tanθ=1θ=π4or3π4λ+cosθsinθ=0sinθcosθ=λ2sin(θπ4)=λsin(θπ4)=λ2validonlywhenλ21,i.e.λ=1+μ21μ22,μ2212+1=(21)2μ21θπ4=sin1λ2orπsin1λ2θ=sin1λ2+π4or5π4sin1λ2Rmaxisatθ=π4:Rmax=12(λ+12)(1μ2)a2+b22μRmax=(2+1μ+μ2+1)a2+b24Rminisatθ=3π4,ifμ21:Rmin=(21μ+μ21)a2+b24Rminisatθ=sin1λ2+π4or5π4sin1λ2,ifμ21:Rmin=a2+b22howtofindthecircumcenter:eqn.ofbisectorofAP:y=bsinθ2cosθ+1μsinθ(xa(cosθ1)2)eqn.ofbisectorofBP:y=b(sinθ1)2cosθμ(1+sinθ)(xacosθ2)circumcenterC(xC,yC)μ(sinθ1)2cosθμ(1+sinθ)(xCacosθ2)=μsinθ2cosθ+1μsinθ(xCacosθ12)μ22=cosθ(1+sinθ)(xCacosθ2)cosθ+1sinθ(xCacosθ12)1μ22=(cosθ1+sinθcosθ+1sinθ)xCaxCa=(1μ2)(1+sinθ)sinθ2(1+sinθ+cosθ)yCa=μ(sinθ1)2cosθμ(1+sinθ)(xCacosθ2)yCa=12μ{μ2(1sinθ)(1+sinθ+cosθ)+cosθμ2sinθcosθ+cos2θ(1+sinθ+cosθ)}yCa=(1μ2)(1+cosθ)cosθ2μ(1+sinθ+cosθ)

Commented by mr W last updated on 23/Jan/22

Commented by mr W last updated on 23/Jan/22

Commented by mr W last updated on 23/Jan/22

Commented by ajfour last updated on 24/Jan/22

Thanks Sir, great effort and  succesful workings, i ′ll go  through very soon..

ThanksSir,greateffortandsuccesfulworkings,illgothroughverysoon..

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